Translated by Benjamin
Jowett
-
-
- Persons of the Dialogue
- SOCRATES
- CRITIAS
- TIMÆUS
- HERMOCRATES
Socrates. One, two, three; but where, my dear Timæus,
is the fourth of those who were yesterday my
guests and are to be my entertainers to-day?
Timæus. He has been taken ill, Socrates; for he would
not willingly have been absent from this gathering.
Soc. Then, if he is not coming, you and the two others must
supply his place.
Tim. Certainly, and we will do all that we can; having been
handsomely entertained by you yesterday, those
of us who remain should be only too glad to return your hospitality.
Soc. Do you remember what were the points of which I required
you to speak?
Tim. We remember some of them, and you will be here to remind
us of anything which we have forgotten:
or rather, if we are not troubling you, will you briefly recapitulate
the whole, and then the particulars will be
more firmly fixed in our memories?
Soc. To be sure I will: the chief theme of my yesterday's discourse
was the State-how constituted and of
what citizens composed it would seem likely to be most perfect.
Tim. Yes, Socrates; and what you said of it was very much to
our mind.
Soc. Did we not begin by separating the husbandmen and the artisans
from the class of defenders of the
State?
Tim. Yes.
Soc. And when we had given to each one that single employment
and particular art which was suited to his
nature, we spoke of those who were intended to be our warriors, and
said that they were to be guardians of
the city against attacks from within as well as from without, and to
have no other employment; they were to
be merciful in judging their subjects, of whom they were by nature
friends, but fierce to their enemies, when
they came across them in battle.
Tim. Exactly.
Soc. We said, if I am not mistaken, that the guardians should
be gifted with a temperament in a high degree
both passionate and philosophical; and that then they would be as they
ought to be, gentle to their friends and
fierce with their enemies.
Tim. Certainly.
Soc. And what did we say of their education? Were they not to
be trained in gymnastic, and music, and all
other sorts of knowledge which were proper for them?
Tim. Very true.
Soc. And being thus trained they were not to consider gold or
silver or anything else to be their own private
property; they were to be like hired troops, receiving pay for keeping
guard from those who were protected
by them-the pay was to be no more than would suffice for men of simple
life; and they were to spend in
common, and to live together in the continual practice of virtue, which
was to be their sole pursuit.
Tim. That was also said.
Soc. Neither did we forget the women; of whom we declared, that
their natures should be assimilated and
brought into harmony with those of the men, and that common pursuits
should be assigned to them both in
time of war and in their ordinary life.
Tim. That, again, was as you say.
Soc. And what about the procreation of children? Or rather not
the proposal too singular to be forgotten? for
all wives and children were to be in common, to the intent that no
one should ever know his own child, but
they were to imagine that they were all one family; those who were
within a suitable limit of age were to be
brothers and sisters, those who were of an elder generation parents
and grandparents, and those of a younger
children and grandchildren.
Tim. Yes, and the proposal is easy to remember, as you say.
Soc. And do you also remember how, with a view of securing as
far as we could the best breed, we said that
the chief magistrates, male and female, should contrive secretly, by
the use of certain lots, so to arrange the
nuptial meeting, that the bad of either sex and the good of either
sex might pair with their like; and there was
to be no quarrelling on this account, for they would imagine that the
union was a mere accident, and was to
be attributed to the lot?
Tim. I remember.
Soc. And you remember how we said that the children of the good
parents were to be educated, and the
children of the bad secretly dispersed among the inferior citizens;
and while they were all growing up the
rulers were to be on the look-out, and to bring up from below in their
turn those who were worthy, and those
among themselves who were unworthy were to take the places of those
who came up?
Tim. True.
Soc. Then have I now given you all the heads of our yesterday's
discussion? Or is there anything more, my
dear Timaeus, which has been omitted?
Tim. Nothing, Socrates; it was just as you have said.
Soc. I should like, before proceeding further, to tell you how
I feel about the State which we have described. I
might compare myself to a person who, on beholding beautiful animals
either created by the painter's art, or,
better still, alive but at rest, is seized with a desire of seeing
them in motion or engaged in some struggle or
conflict to which their forms appear suited; this is my feeling about
the State which we have been describing.
There are conflicts which all cities undergo, and I should like to
hear some one tell of our own city carrying
on a struggle against her neighbours, and how she went out to war in
a becoming manner, and when at war
showed by the greatness of her actions and the magnanimity of her words
in dealing with other cities a result
worthy of her training and education. Now I, Critias and Hermocrates,
am conscious that I myself should
never be able to celebrate the city and her citizens in a befitting
manner, and I am not surprised at my own
incapacity; to me the wonder is rather that the poets present as well
as past are no better-not that I mean to
depreciate them; but every one can see that they are a tribe of imitators,
and will imitate best and most easily
the life in which they have been brought up; while that which is beyond
the range of a man's education he
finds hard to carry out in action, and still harder adequately to represent
in language. I am aware that the
Sophists have plenty of brave words and fair conceits, but I am afraid
that being only wanderers from one
city to another, and having never had habitations of their own, they
may fail in their conception of
philosophers and statesmen, and may not know what they do and say in
time of war, when they are fighting
or holding parley with their enemies. And thus people of your class
are the only ones remaining who are
fitted by nature and education to take part at once both in politics
and philosophy. Here is Timaeus, of Locris
in Italy, a city which has admirable laws, and who is himself in wealth
and rank the equal of any of his
fellow-citizens; he has held the most important and honourable offices
in his own state, and, as I believe, has
scaled the heights of all philosophy; and here is Critias, whom every
Athenian knows to be no novice in the
matters of which we are speaking; and as to, Hermocrates, I am assured
by many witnesses that his genius
and education qualify him to take part in any speculation of the kind.
And therefore yesterday when I saw
that you wanted me to describe the formation of the State, I readily
assented, being very well aware, that, if
you only would, none were better qualified to carry the discussion
further, and that when you had engaged
our city in a suitable war, you of all men living could best exhibit
her playing a fitting part. When I had
completed my task, I in return imposed this other task upon you. You
conferred together and agreed to
entertain me to-day, as I had entertained you, with a feast of discourse.
Here am I in festive array, and no
man can be more ready for the promised banquet.
Her. And we too, Socrates, as Timæus says, will not be
wanting in enthusiasm; and there is no excuse for
not complying with your request. As soon as we arrived yesterday at
the guest-chamber of Critias, with
whom we are staying, or rather on our way thither, we talked the matter
over, and he told us an ancient
tradition, which I wish, Critias, that you would repeat to Socrates,
so that he may help us to judge whether it
will satisfy his requirements or not.
Crit. I will, if Timæus, who is our other partner, approves.
Tim. I quite approve.
Crit. Then listen, Socrates, to a tale which, though strange,
is certainly true, having been attested by Solon,
who was the wisest of the seven sages. He was a relative and a dear
friend of my great-grandfather,
Dropides, as he himself says in many passages of his poems; and he
told the story to Critias, my
grandfather, who remembered and repeated it to us. There were of old,
he said, great and marvellous actions
of the Athenian city, which have passed into oblivion through lapse
of time and the destruction of mankind,
and one in particular, greater than all the rest. This we will now
rehearse. It will be a fitting monument of our
gratitude to you, and a hymn of praise true and worthy of the goddess,
on this her day of festival.
Soc. Very good. And what is this ancient famous action of the
Athenians, which Critias declared, on the
authority of Solon, to be not a mere legend, but an actual fact?
Crit. I will tell an old-world story which I heard from an aged
man; for Critias, at the time of telling it, was
as he said, nearly ninety years of age, and I was about ten. Now the
day was that day of the Apaturia which is
called the Registration of Youth, at which, according to custom, our
parents gave prizes for recitations, and
the poems of several poets were recited by us boys, and many of us
sang the poems of Solon, which at that
time had not gone out of fashion. One of our tribe, either because
he thought so or to please Critias, said that
in his judgment Solon was not only the wisest of men, but also the
noblest of poets. The old man, as I very
well remember, brightened up at hearing this and said, smiling: Yes,
Amynander, if Solon had only, like
other poets, made poetry the business of his life, and had completed
the tale which he brought with him from
Egypt, and had not been compelled, by reason of the factions and troubles
which he found stirring in his own
country when he came home, to attend to other matters, in my opinion
he would have been as famous as
Homer or Hesiod, or any poet.
And what was the tale about, Critias? said Amynander.
About the greatest action which the Athenians ever did, and which ought
to have been the most famous, but,
through the lapse of time and the destruction of the actors, it has
not come down to us.
Tell us, said the other, the whole story, and how and from whom Solon
heard this veritable tradition.
He replied:-In the Egyptian Delta, at the head of which the river Nile
divides, there is a certain district which
is called the district of Sais, and the great city of the district
is also called Sais, and is the city from which
King Amasis came. The citizens have a deity for their foundress; she
is called in the Egyptian tongue Neith,
and is asserted by them to be the same whom the Hellenes call Athene;
they are great lovers of the
Athenians, and say that they are in some way related to them. To this
city came Solon, and was received
there with great honour; he asked the priests who were most skilful
in such matters, about antiquity, and
made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything
worth mentioning about the times of
old. On one occasion, wishing to draw them on to speak of antiquity,
he began to tell about the most ancient
things in our part of the world-about Phoroneus, who is called "the
first man," and about Niobe; and after the
Deluge, of the survival of Deucalion and Pyrrha; and he traced the
genealogy of their descendants, and
reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events
of which he was speaking
happened. Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age,
said: O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are
never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you.
Solon in return asked him what he
meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there
is no old opinion handed down among
you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age.
And I will tell you why. There have been,
and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many
causes; the greatest have been brought
about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable
other causes. There is a story,
which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Paethon, the son
of Helios, having yoked the steeds in
his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the
path of his father, burnt up all that was upon
the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has
the form of a myth, but really signifies a
declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and
a great conflagration of things upon the
earth, which recurs after long intervals; at such times those who live
upon the mountains and in dry and lofty
places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers
or on the seashore. And from this
calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing saviour, delivers and preserves
us. When, on the other hand, the
gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your
country are herdsmen and shepherds who
dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are
carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas
in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come
down from above on the fields, having
always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions
preserved here are the most
ancient.
The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer
does not prevent, mankind exist,
sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser numbers. And whatever happened
either in your country or in
ours, or in any other region of which we are informed-if there were
any actions noble or great or in any other
way remarkable, they have all been written down by us of old, and are
preserved in our temples. Whereas
just when you and other nations are beginning to be provided with letters
and the other requisites of civilized
life, after the usual interval, the stream from heaven, like a pestilence,
comes pouring down, and leaves only
those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and so you
have to begin all over again like children,
and know nothing of what happened in ancient times, either among us
or among yourselves. As for those
genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they
are no better than the tales of children.
In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were
many previous ones; in the next place,
you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest
and noblest race of men which ever lived,
and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or
remnant of them which survived. And
this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors
of that destruction died, leaving no
written word. For there was a time, Solon, before the great deluge
of all, when the city which now is Athens
was first in war and in every way the best governed of all cities,
is said to have performed the noblest deeds
and to have had the fairest constitution of any of which tradition
tells, under the face of heaven.
Solon marvelled at his words, and earnestly requested the priests to
inform him exactly and in order about
these former citizens. You are welcome to hear about them, Solon, said
the priest, both for your own sake
and for that of your city, and above all, for the sake of the goddess
who is the common patron and parent and
educator of both our cities. She founded your city a thousand years
before ours, receiving from the Earth and
Hephaestus the seed of your race, and afterwards she founded ours,
of which the constitution is recorded in
our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old. As touching your
citizens of nine thousand years ago, I
will briefly inform you of their laws and of their most famous action;
the exact particulars of the whole we
will hereafter go through at our leisure in the sacred registers themselves.
If you compare these very laws
with ours you will find that many of ours are the counterpart of yours
as they were in the olden time. In the
first place, there is the caste of priests, which is separated from
all the others; next, there are the artificers,
who ply their several crafts by themselves and do not intermix; and
also there is the class of shepherds and of
hunters, as well as that of husbandmen; and you will observe, too,
that the warriors in Egypt are distinct
from all the other classes, and are commanded by the law to devote
themselves solely to military pursuits;
moreover, the weapons which they carry are shields and spears, a style
of equipment which the goddess
taught of Asiatics first to us, as in your part of the world first
to you. Then as to wisdom, do you observe
how our law from the very first made a study of the whole order of
things, extending even to prophecy and
medicine which gives health, out of these divine elements deriving
what was needful for human life, and
adding every sort of knowledge which was akin to them. All this order
and arrangement the goddess first
imparted to you when establishing your city; and she chose the spot
of earth in which you were born,
because she saw that the happy temperament of the seasons in that land
would produce the wisest of men.
Wherefore the goddess, who was a lover both of war and of wisdom, selected
and first of all settled that spot
which was the most likely to produce men likest herself. And there
you dwelt, having such laws as these and
still better ones, and excelled all mankind in all virtue, as became
the children and disciples of the gods.
Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories.
But one of them exceeds all the
rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty
power which unprovoked made an expedition
against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an
end. This power came forth out of the
Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there
was an island situated in front of the
straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island
was larger than Libya and Asia put together,
and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to
the whole of the opposite continent
which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits
of Heracles is only a harbour, having
a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding
land may be most truly called a boundless
continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful
empire which had rule over the
whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and,
furthermore, the men of Atlantis had
subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far
as Egypt, and of Europe as far as
Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue
at a blow our country and yours and
the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country
shone forth, in the excellence of her
virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage
and military skill, and was the
leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being
compelled to stand alone, after having